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 Update 3

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Kilik 64
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PostSubject: Update 3   Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:19 am

So, the next update for the game. This one will be focusing on game play elements, something you have all been waiting to hear about. Game play elements, just so you know, is rather broad term I use to describe any aspect of the game that directly effects game play itself. This includes classes, weapons, environments, etc. So, let's get started.
One of the first things you will notice is the class system. We tried to get in as many of the classes as we could, yet still make them different from each other. So, as you play, you will notice some classes using different weapons, and characters in those classes developing different stats. However, I would like to introduce one of the new classes in the game; the alchemist. The alchemist works much like a cleric or priest. He cannot attack, and doesn't really have exceptional stats at all. He can only be used to hold items or use his special skill. For clerics, this is healing the injuries of allies. For an alchemist, this is the restoration of non-living things. Here's an example.

You are moving your team in towards the enemy scout. As he is clearly outmatched, but doesn't want you to just march forward against his people, he retreats past the bridge and...

... breaks it. Now, you cannot walk across the bridge, and must find another, more difficult route to reach our objective. Depending on your mission objective, this can be fatal to your mission.

So, what do you do? You call in the alchemist. It's time for him to work his magic. Now, alchemists will be found as partner units, but that won't be explained right now. Back to his special skill.

While he is working, keep in mind that he, like basic healers, cannot defend himself. Make sure to keep him protected. Now, it may seem, like the enemy is getting away, but watch closely.

BAM! just like that, he fixed the bridge! Now you are free to cross the bridge and...

...take care of the enemy. Also, Don't worry. In most cases, losing the alchemist will not result in the inability to complete a mission. It will just make it much harder, as traps may lie in wait along the other route, or enemies may continue to flood in through an open spot in your fortress. However, there may be some missions where the alchemist is required to win, so losing him before he is able to do his job will result in a mission failure.

Also, three more things to remember. First: While broken bridges can be serious problems for most units, there are still some that don't mind. Those that can swim and fly will fare all the same, so feel free to bring some along on missions with lots of waterways. Second, although this example was showing bridges, that's not the only thing that alchemists are used for. They can repair lots of things. Bridges, walls, siege weapons, and even items you carry! Finally, remember to make good use his powers. It requires are special tome to use alchemy, and that tome doesn't last forever. So, if you waste it repairing your items, he won't be able to do more important things.
Now, as for some changes to existing classes. There are quite a few, and I won't be going into detail for all of them. So here are just a few things.
1. The double class system from Sacred Stones will be seen here. As you know, the double class system was the idea of giving characters two possible evolution stages to choose from. However, some classes tended to be too similar, and many characters only did well as one of their available classes. Thus the changes to the classes. As you play, you will notice changes in what weapons they can use, as well as how their stats turn out overall.

Here we have Mya, one of the cavaliers you get throughout the game. As far as base units go, cavaliers are generally well rounded. Along with great movement and good recovery, they make a good trooper for any chapter. However, when they promote...

They become mighty paladins. Paladins were generally balanced units in the past, but in Days of Darkness, they are all about speed. They are among the fastest units in the game, and are able to achieve double digit movements ratings! They also gain the ability to use axes, giving them control of the weapon triangle. Depending on the specific character, they can also turn out to be pretty good attackers as well. They make both great attackers and rescuers.

On the other hand is the great knight. As the paladins excel in speed, the great knights excel in strength. They are among the strongest units you will get. Like, paladins, they gain axes, giving them each part of the weapon triangle. No enemy is an obstacle with these rampaging riders.
So, which will you choose. The swift paladin or the destructive great knight? That is entirely up to you...

Finally, the skills. The skills system from Path of Radiance will be returning with some changes. This time around, every character will gain their skill upon promoting. Each class has a unique skill, and major characters may have their own unique skills. Here is an example of how one of the newer skills will work.

Heh, it seems your thief has managed to find a chest. Lucky you. Time to go open it and recieve what's inside.

Woah. It seems an enemy soldier has spawned at the stairway and spotted you. Thieves aren't really combt units, so it would be best for him to retreat and wait for help.

Yikes. Another wave of enemies has come forward and are in pursuit of your thief. Luckily, a great knight arrived just in time to save him.

With his colossal power, he easily decimated the first soldier. However, the situation is looking grim. Your thief is injured and trapped in a corner, and may not survive longer enough for your great knight to take out both soldiers. Time to break out the secret weapon!

Bam! The great knight was able to bypass soldier blocking his path and save the theif just in time. Also, he is in between the thief and final soldier, so no futher harm will come to him. That his his Barge skill. It allows a Great Knight to travel through enemies as though they are not there, provided that their constitution is lower.

This time the soldiers are lined up. No problem. Barge works for enemies lined up too. As long as your constitution is greater than thei total, it doesn't matter how man there are. While you can't stop on the spaces the occupy, this move makes a great tactic for many battles.

See? Once again, the thief is safe. Just remember one thing. While units on foot increase in their transport ability as their constitution increases, mounted units lose transport point while carrying. So, in order to make this skill more effective, you would actually have to decrease you ability to rescue people.



Well, there is the complete update. Sorry but it might be a little while before the next one, conisdering I just gave you 3. Till next time, guys...

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Last edited by Kilik 64 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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MrAndersonMan
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:29 pm

Wow. Creative. Even though Great Knights are already too much better than Paladins... I hope pallies get majorly buffed.

Will Generals be able to do this? Also, a similar ability for the Rogue might be useful, except instead of defending, he escapes.

Also, can you barge with your retreat movement? Will mounts even have retreat movement after attacking? Cause that would be really in the favor of Greatknights (and really annoying if baddies have them)
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:04 pm

Generals will have something new I am trying to think of. Something unique to them that makes them a worthwhile unit. That's what Im going for in each and every class.

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MrAndersonMan
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:29 pm

Generals are already too good. Big Shield does kind of suck, but really, do Generals *need* a buff?

Maybe an occasional use defense instead of resistance... that might be way too good, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:24 am

Well, generals will also get some changes in order to make them more balanced.

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Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:38 am

Why not just give them full WTA?
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Kilik 64
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:19 am

Because I'm trying to balance them. They have epic defense, good strength, and decent skill. The only thing wrong with them is being slow and low resistance. However, the speedy units usually have low strength (too low to get around their defense) and magic units can easily be obliterated by a first attack or counterattack. Weapon triangle control would make them broken. So, some stuff must be changes to make them more balanced....

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Legatus
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:39 pm

Well, if you ask me, magic units should be something for the Generals to fear. Make Generals have near-zero resistance and... Hmm... maybe a spell that does effective damage against armored foes.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:56 pm

I am thinking of making them units more suited for defending against enemy assaults than actually walking out into the field and slaying everything in sight.

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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:17 am

how do i actually download the game(also an avatar)
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Kilik 64
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:35 am

The game does not have a demo out yet for download.

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DanDaMan
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:23 am

Kilik 64 wrote:
The game does not have a demo out yet for download.
Yes, but it will soon.
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PostSubject: RE:update 3   Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:26 am

Why not have generals be able to only use spear so they don't dominate the weapon triangle drop speed to 1 and give the crappy growth in speed drop res down to 0, That way they are a pit less abusive. And as for skill why not savior up defense and res by 2 while rescuing and ally.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:54 am

Speed to 1 and res to 0??? That's insane. Generals would be absolutely useless.
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PostSubject: RE: update 3   Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:07 pm

Speed on Generals doesn't matter give them killer weapons it will instantly make up for their horrible speed and the 0 for res is to makes them vulnerable and bring a whole new difficulty to your strategies. An not many people would try and stand their weak mage against a giant on the field. Most importantly it will make enemy generals more than this big shield to hammer on they can actually do damage. An 0 res on a general is common in Fire Emblem Gaiden on the NES. Plus their high HP makes them able to take a couple magic attacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:58 am

1) You can't say a stat doesn't matter (except MAG for physical units in FE9/10). That's crazy-talk. I don't want my General being doubled by EVERY SINGLE enemy he faces. He'd get destroyed.

2) Killer weapons? Seriously, you get like two of every killer weapon in normal FE games. Not enough there, sonny. And the other units who could use them get shafted.

3) Generals have crappy RES anyways, why does it need to be lower?

4) Most people WILL send a mage against a General, because he/she will be very effective. The mage attacks from range, dealing a huge amount of damage, most likely twice, without a counterattack. Then you either rescue the mage, or place another unit in front of him/her.

5) ...What about enemy generals? The hardest Early- and Midgame bosses are Generals, because of their insane DEF and STR. Nullifying their RES takes away any challenge in defeating them.

6) That's FE Gaiden. Not the current FE format.

7) ...Not quite. Maybe they'll stand up to one mage that's thrown against them, but with the non-existant resistance you're suggesting, they'll get absolutely annihilated.

Generals would be pretty much useless without SPD or RES. Those two stats are low enough as it is. Note that this is coming from a player who VERY RARELY uses ANY knight/general. Even Oswin. I don't like them, and I think this would destroy the class in general.

EDIT: Wow, that got long really fast. XD


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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:14 am

True about the res...but a good general still needs SOME speed.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:08 am

The generals high HP allows them to take some abuse from mages and then it is just a good way to level your clerics off of healing him.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:21 am

...But what if someone else is hurt, and my Clerics are stuck healing the General? ...Too many flaws there. I understand wanting to power down the General class, but what you're suggesting would make them absolutely suck. =/
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:08 am

It agree with BSmith3. Amazingly enough, the makers of Fire Emblem were able to balance the classes relatively well.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:10 pm

It was just and idea but do you guys at least agree on spear only so they can't abuse the weapon triangle with their monstrous caps and growths.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:39 pm

The speed of a general is fine, but I'm thinking of lowering res. With really low res, you will have to constantly be aware of where the magic users are on the field. You'll need to use more strategy then just "go out and kill". And generals will use lances and swords probably. It makes moe sense than axes. As for their ability... you'll find out later.

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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:16 pm

I think that generals can't keep swords that's 4 sure.
Personally I think that the stat caps and growth rates are good as they are, but if u rele want to change it they could have maybe lower res rate, coz my oswin (god i love that game) nearly maxed out everything without items and most mages could only do 10 damage.

as a skill, what if you gave them the ability to "defend" or "guard" another unit? regardless of con and with no negative stat ailments (ie spd and skl stay the same) they can "guard" the unit so that when it is attacked, the general takes the damage and is put into the fight as opposed to the unit under fire.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:29 am

Don't you think Generals are fine as they are? I understand them having really powerful defensive abilities despite the lack of speed and still good damaging power but they're no good for missions you have to move with haste. (That chapter with Murdock in FE6) Heck, most terrain obstackles like forests push down their already lacking mobility. What they are good for is stationery defending. As enemy units, they can be used as blockades to slow you down in missions where speed and good mobility is critical.
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PostSubject: Re: Update 3   Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:22 am

I decided against the speed nerfing idea, because Bsmith showed me how badly it kills generals. However, the res lowering thing is still very much under consideration, because I should not be able to take a general and charge him into a room full of magic users unafraid of their attacks. If you happen to get RNG blessed, fine. But the average general should see magic users as a constant threat.

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